The Proof for Christ's Claims

**MasterMind** · April 9th, 2007, 05:16

Originally Posted by theICE_MAN

sura 16:61 "if god were to take mankind to task for their wrongoing, he would not leave here one living creature"

thought good works got you to heaven?

the quran cites its elegance as evidence for its inspiration in sura 17:88 -"If all the humans and all the jinns banded together in order to produce a Quran like this, they could never produce anything like it, no matter how much assistance they lent one another."

the quran is right because its well written? interesting theory..

The first part 16:61 shows the mercy of God on his creation. But because God has mercy on his creation some deeds are overlooked.

Quran says sura 103 "By the passage of time. Man is in loss except those who BELIEVE AND do righteous deeds. And encourage each other to the truth. And encourage each other to patience."

So you need both belief that there is One God, All Prophets/messengers, Angels, Bookssss, Day of Judgement (accountable to deeds, heaven, hell).
AND
Action---Good deeds and bad Deeds

The way to Paradise is through mercy of God who Multiplies good deeds based on intention and action. Prophet said in hadith "Your actions will be based on your INTENTION and everyone will have what they intended...(Bukhari).

Prophet said anyone who has invented something in this religion it will not be accepted (hadith). So you must do the action the CORRECT way. The Quran says "I have perfected your religion and chosen Islam as your (deen) way of living"

Prophet said "No one of you will enter Paradise through his good works." They said: "Not even you, O Messenger of God?" "Not even I," he replied, "unless God cover me with His grace and mercy. Therefore be strong, and morning and evening, nay every moment, try to do good."

Finally, the Quran challenges the non-believers to produce a Quran like it with its eloquence, meaning, and truthfulness without contradicitons.

**ICE** · April 9th, 2007, 05:24

Originally Posted by MasterMind

The first part 16:61 shows the mercy of God on his creation. But because God has mercy on his creation some deeds are overlooked.

Quran says sura 103 "By the passage of time. Man is in loss except those who BELIEVE AND do righteous deeds. And encourage each other to the truth. And encourage each other to patience."

So you need both belief that there is One God, All Prophets/messengers, Angels, Bookssss, Day of Judgement (accountable to deeds, heaven, hell).
AND
Action---Good deeds and bad Deeds

The way to Paradise is through mercy of God who Multiplies good deeds based on intention and action. Prophet said in hadith "Your actions will be based on your INTENTION and everyone will have what they intended...(Bukhari).

Prophet said anyone who has invented something in this religion it will not be accepted (hadith). So you must do the action the CORRECT way. The Quran says "I have perfected your religion and chosen Islam as your (deen) way of living"

Prophet said "No one of you will enter Paradise through his good works." They said: "Not even you, O Messenger of God?" "Not even I," he replied, "unless God cover me with His grace and mercy. Therefore be strong, and morning and evening, nay every moment, try to do good."

Finally, the Quran challenges the believers to produce a Quran like it with its eloquence, meaning, and truthfulness without contradicitons.

god is perfect no? can good mingle with evil? a god who overlooks sin is not perfect and is NOT my god. sin is sin and there must be a punishment for it.

you say the quran has no contradictions. heres some.

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
3. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
4. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
5. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

# Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
3. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
4. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

# The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

# Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

1. Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
2. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

**MasterMind** · April 9th, 2007, 05:26

Originally Posted by theICE_MAN

so the quran says believe in the bible but you say you dont? hmm intersting..

Ice Man I believe in the Bible...It comes from the word Bibilios ...which mean books. I believe in the books that revelead to man...But now that the Quran has come it has come to clear up the misunderstanding and clear it up for ALL of us. Islam cam 1400 years ago to clear up any doubts and say the truth about who God really is and what he wants form his creation. The Bible is corrupted as agreed by your scholars and mine....so it is just the person who blindly follows and gives money to the money hungry "church" that preach them false things....You should give your money to the poor rather than the corrupt church.

**tactful mcbee** · April 9th, 2007, 05:38

Originally Posted by MasterMind

Ice Man I believe in the Bible...It comes from the word Bibilios ...which mean books. I believe in the books that revelead to man...But now that the Quran has come it has come to clear up the misunderstanding and clear it up for ALL of us. Islam cam 1400 years ago to clear up any doubts and say the truth about who God really is and what he wants form his creation. The Bible is corrupted as agreed by your scholars and mine....so it is just the person who blindly follows and gives money to the money hungry "church" that preach them false things....You should give your money to the poor rather than the corrupt church.

the bible comes before the quran. if it is gods word then it can not change. and if god gives a revelation it must be in complete agreement of what he has said in the past. and if you say the bible is correct than the quran can't contridict the bible.

sura 11:42-43 contradicts genesis6-7 by saying that noah had a son who died in the flood, sura 3:41 contradicts luke when it says that zechariah was speechless for 3 days luke 1:18-20. sura 61:6 claims muhammad fulfills prophesy of deuteronomy 18:15-18 and john 14:16, but deuteronomy 34:10says And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face. muhammad never met god but was visited by an angel gabriel and he is not of isreal but of ishmael

**ICE** · April 9th, 2007, 05:39

Originally Posted by MasterMind

Ice Man I believe in the Bible...It comes from the word Bibilios ...which mean books. I believe in the books that revelead to man...But now that the Quran has come it has come to clear up the misunderstanding and clear it up for ALL of us. Islam cam 1400 years ago to clear up any doubts and say the truth about who God really is and what he wants form his creation. The Bible is corrupted as agreed by your scholars and mine....so it is just the person who blindly follows and gives money to the money hungry "church" that preach them false things....You should give your money to the poor rather than the corrupt church.

thats sounds a whole lot the book of morman to me... anywho so the quran says that the bible is valid but you disagree? well someones wrong who is it?

umm i highly doubt that christian scholars would say that the bible is "corrupted beyond use". GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. oh and tell me who your quoting.

also how do you know i enjoy giving my money to a money hungry "church"? its like youve been following me!! oh no wait no i dont do that.. thats right i was confusing myself with someone who WASNT a christian lol. just because people try and use Christianity to make $$$ doesnt mean anything.

some people use islam to promote wars against terrorists does that mean anything about islam?

EDIT: FYI i hope no one takes some of my jokes seriously. i dont intend to offend i just want to keep this light ya know?

**MasterMind** · April 9th, 2007, 06:06

Originally Posted by theICE_MAN

thats sounds a whole lot the book of morman to me... anywho so the quran says that the bible is valid but you disagree? well someones wrong who is it?

umm i highly doubt that christian scholars would say that the bible is "corrupted beyond use". GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. oh and tell me who your quoting.

also how do you know i enjoy giving my money to a money hungry "church"? its like youve been following me!! oh no wait no i dont do that.. thats right i was confusing myself with someone who WASNT a christian lol. just because people try and use Christianity to make $$$ doesnt mean anything.

some people use islam to promote wars against terrorists does that mean anything about islam?

EDIT: FYI i hope no one takes some of my jokes seriously. i dont intend to offend i just want to keep this light ya know?

The Roman Catholic Church has published a statement says all the Bible is not true. Search it in google if you don't believe me. It was said on something called the "Gift of scriptures." In it is says that Christians should not expect total accuracy in the Bible...so that is my proof.

**tactful mcbee** · April 9th, 2007, 06:07

the catholic church is not christian so your proof is still opinion

**ICE** · April 9th, 2007, 06:10

umm the roman catholic church is not christian. i have explained this time and time again and im not doing it again. catholics added an entire new section to the bible so i prolly wouldnt listen to their opinion on the topic...