The Spirituality Thread

[Kaiser]

The purpose of this thread is to keep all the arguing of a Theologians guild in one place. No flaming or bigotry. Argue and discuss in a civil manner.

I'll start where things left off.

i know your a mod and all and if i offended you im sorry but lets face it. juddianic messiasm(christianity in its first form) and catholicism are very different. if you want me to explain i will but you clearly find this to be a touchy topic so i wont unless you gimme the green light.

Go for it. I'm not going to ban you for arguing against me. That would be an abuse of my power.

Are you claiming to be a part of the original Judeo-Christian belief system?

All Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics. Thats a simple way to compare each.

i still disagree. the only parts that are figurative are the parables and some of the prophecies. i mean the prophecies came true but the things the prophet saw were analogies for something.

Believe me historically, the old testement is quite "off" on a lot of things and has some pretty bad stuff in it to take literally. I mean you can't possibly take the story of Adam and Eve as a literal and completely historical event and consider yourself "enlightened."

Plus to understand the bible literally is fundamentalism. Fundamentalism IMO opinion is the worst facet of Christianity and Islam.




Heading to bed here. Give me a chance to reply back tommorow.

[ICE]

first lets see what it is to be a christian. to be a christian is to accept jesus as the mediator between yourself and G-d. to accept his actions on the cross and what occurred after as your personal atonement for your sins. however, salvation without works is dead. by that it means if one is truely saved they will look at what he did for you personally and you will act like a christian as best you can for him. if you dont your probably not saved.

catholics believe that your saved by being baptized even though the bible clearly states that we are saved by grace trough faith not by works. water baptism is a work.

Romans 6:3-5 speaks to us of Christ's work and our public identification with it. In that ancient world of religious plurality in Roman gods, in the strict Laws of the Jewish system, and in the gods of different cultures, to be baptized was to make a bold statement of commitment to Christ as the risen Lord. It was not the water that saved, but faith in Christ and His work.

if your not saved you not a christian and if most catholics are relying on being sprinkled with water to get to heaven then.... well you see where im going.

before you guys start bashing me i asked permission to do ^^^that.

EDIT: oh and about that you cant take adam and eve literally... just like ive said about 50 times now you have to learn what parts are analogies/parables and which parts are literal. you have to look at the hebrew or greek translations to see the wording to determine that sometimes though. It is literally true where it is intended to be literally true, figurative where it is intended to be figurative, poetic where is meant to be poetic, etc. Therefore, we must examine the wide diversity of biblical writing using logic, contextual analysis, etc. Do I believe that God created the earth in the order that is described in Chapter 1 of Genesis? Yes I do.

[Kaiser]

first lets see what it is to be a christian. to be a christian is to accept jesus as the mediator between yourself and God.

Almost ALL Christian churches accept Christ as part of the holy trinity and more then a mere mediator.

Catholicism is also Trinitarian: it believes that, while God is one in nature, essence, and being, this one God exists in three divine persons, each identical with the one essence, whose only distinctions are in their relations to one another: the Father's relationship to the Son, the Son's relationship to the Father, and the relations of both to the Holy Spirit, constitute the one God as a Trinity.

This was accepted by all the original Bishops. Thus in turn it is a common belief shared by any member of a Coptic, Catholic, Orthodox, or Oriental (Antiochan) church. Its also accepted by most Protestant churches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

to accept his actions on the cross and what occurred after as your personal atonement for your sins.

Common ground all true Christians accept.

however, salvation without works is dead. by that it means if one is truely saved they will look at what he did for you personally and you will act like a christian as best you can for him. if you dont your probably not saved.

The concept of charity and working to improve people's lives. Another common belief among real christians.

catholics believe that your saved by being baptized even though the bible clearly states that we are saved by grace trough faith not by works. water baptism is a work.

Romans 6:3-5 speaks to us of Christ's work and our public identification with it. In that ancient world of religious plurality in Roman gods, in the strict Laws of the Jewish system, and in the gods of different cultures, to be baptized was to make a bold statement of commitment to Christ as the risen Lord. It was not the water that saved, but faith in Christ and His work.

Its simply a tradition. A simple act that symbolizes your entry into the church. Your looking far to deep into it. No Catholic priest would say that baptism is the only requirement for salvation.

if your not saved you not a christian and if most catholics are relying on being sprinkled with water to get to heaven then.... well you see where im going.

Again don't make such assumptions, where are you getting these facts?

EDIT: oh and about that you cant take adam and eve literally... just like ive said about 50 times now you have to learn what parts are analogies/parables and which parts are literal. you have to look at the hebrew or greek translations to see the wording to determine that sometimes though. It is literally true where it is intended to be literally true, figurative where it is intended to be figurative, poetic where is meant to be poetic, etc. Therefore, we must examine the wide diversity of biblical writing using logic, contextual analysis, etc. Do I believe that God created the earth in the order that is described in Chapter 1 of Genesis? Yes I do.

Agreed (who are you arguing for?)

This is another example that aids my argument. Interpretting any part of the bible as completely literal would miss the deeper meaning behind the text.

[TeenDev]

sorry to interupt but wasn't this topic posted a while ago....?

[Kaiser]

sorry to interupt but wasn't this topic posted a while ago....?

I've combined them into one to keep things organized.

[TeenDev]

ahh.... got it.... does that mean you are deleting ExcrutionX's thread?

[ICE]

if water baptism isnt required then why do catholics baptize babies? baptism is a practice that is a symbol for accepting christ and babies dont get it. baptizing a baby is completely pointless unless you think its going to do something for them.

also what do catholics call the pope/ priests? i mean how do they address them?

[bullhead]

I still don't see why it keeps posting about its faith. If people want to know about it, would not they research it? Its like the kid whos parent tells it to do a thing, the kid will naturallay rebel and not want to know. Whereas, if the kid finds his own way, he can relate to it in his own way, as opposed to having beliefs shoved at him against his will.

Let people find God for themselves, is my point.

From the other threads, all the non-believers resented you for preaching, you did not convert or convince one person by preaching your beliefs. People will find god in their own time if they want to submit.

By preaching, you are making more people not want to be practicing Christians, which I don't think God would be too appreciative of.

By continuing to preach here, you go against your Lords will, by making souls turn their backs on him.

bullhead.

[Kaiser]

if water baptism isnt required then why do catholics baptize babies? baptism is a practice that is a symbol for accepting christ and babies dont get it. baptizing a baby is completely pointless unless you think its going to do something for them.

I never said it wasn't required to be a Catholic. It is. Babies are baptized as a symbolic ceremony marking their entrance in to the church. it isn't anything more then that.

also what do catholics call the pope/ priests? i mean how do they address them?

*sigh
I know what your trying to do here. Priests are usually called fathers while higher ranked officials are usually addressed differently. The pope for instance is usually addressed as "your holiness" or "Holy Father." Try not to delve to deep into this either. Its simply a sign of respect.

I'm still waiting for you to argue against my significant points.

[SSaxdude]

I'm an agnostic, but if I was 100% about there being a higher being I still wouldn't go to church. But whatever, I don't care what you believe in.

But I will say one thing in regards to ice_mans point about not taking the entire bible literally. The only problem with that is where to draw the line. Could the whole bible not be meant to be taken literally?